Comments on: The Over/Under: Elliott Smith http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/ Real Music Alternatives Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:12:51 +0000 hourly 1 By: St. Ides Heaven | (almost) every day, a song of the day http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-169831 St. Ides Heaven | (almost) every day, a song of the day Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:36:27 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-169831 [...] read an article recently that I stumbled on quite by accident. In it, the author picks “the” top five [...] [...] read an article recently that I stumbled on quite by accident. In it, the author picks “the” top five [...]

]]> By: mister S http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-81968 mister S Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:00:40 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-81968 I don't think Some song is all that good. To be honest, I think it's one of the worst songs he has in his repertoire. It is (for Smith's standards) somewhat dull and repetitive, not carrying out a clear melody or message. I think you should replace that one with Happiness (the song). I don’t think Some song is all that good. To be honest, I think it’s one of the worst songs he has in his repertoire. It is (for Smith’s standards) somewhat dull and repetitive, not carrying out a clear melody or message. I think you should replace that one with Happiness (the song).

]]> By: mister S http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-81967 mister S Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:59:15 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-81967 I don't think Some song is all that good. To be honest, I think it's one of the worst songs he has in his repertoire. It is (for Smith's) standards somewhat dull and repetitive, not carrying out a clear melody or message. I think you should replace that one with Happiness (the song). I don’t think Some song is all that good. To be honest, I think it’s one of the worst songs he has in his repertoire. It is (for Smith’s) standards somewhat dull and repetitive, not carrying out a clear melody or message. I think you should replace that one with Happiness (the song).

]]> By: Team Rosalie http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-72851 Team Rosalie Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:21:34 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-72851 <strong>Team Rosalie...</strong> OMG... did you see that Team Rosalie is almost as big as TE and TJ!?... Team Rosalie…

OMG… did you see that Team Rosalie is almost as big as TE and TJ!?…

]]> By: Elliott Smith: Keeping the Musician Alive | the quad http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-54185 Elliott Smith: Keeping the Musician Alive | the quad Mon, 26 Apr 2010 03:58:45 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-54185 [...] fans who know about his life story, Smith’s youth was full of confusion and depression. In a Magnet 2005 article, he said, “There’s not much I could say about that time that I would like [...] [...] fans who know about his life story, Smith’s youth was full of confusion and depression. In a Magnet 2005 article, he said, “There’s not much I could say about that time that I would like [...]

]]> By: Matt http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-44626 Matt Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:30:03 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-44626 It's the same story again, a fan that has a certain conception of what "his star" ought to be like, is pissed off once the artist changes. Then the blame goes to producers or labels, when in fact most of it is the result of the artist's deliberate decisions. Another fan favorite is being pissed off because the insider obscurity that made it "cool" to know an artist is replaced by somewhat broader recognition, and suddenly the artist "sells out" and is just not hip enough anymore. Also, dismissing a song because of the subject seems very odd. He's singing about his demons, and you go like "Oh please, don't?" Can't we get over this? Like many others, I believe there are no "bad" or "overrated" Elliott Smith songs. You can pick either one, they all are works of a real superb craftsman who knew his trade and was up there with the real big ones: Brian Wilson, Lennon/McCartney, Townshend, some P. Simon, Costello, Stevie, all of those are in there and their parts form something that is bigger than just the sum. This much from somebody who's not a fan, but an admirer of art and beauty. It’s the same story again, a fan that has a certain conception of what “his star” ought to be like, is pissed off once the artist changes. Then the blame goes to producers or labels, when in fact most of it is the result of the artist’s deliberate decisions. Another fan favorite is being pissed off because the insider obscurity that made it “cool” to know an artist is replaced by somewhat broader recognition, and suddenly the artist “sells out” and is just not hip enough anymore. Also, dismissing a song because of the subject seems very odd. He’s singing about his demons, and you go like “Oh please, don’t?”
Can’t we get over this? Like many others, I believe there are no “bad” or “overrated” Elliott Smith songs. You can pick either one, they all are works of a real superb craftsman who knew his trade and was up there with the real big ones: Brian Wilson, Lennon/McCartney, Townshend, some P. Simon, Costello, Stevie, all of those are in there and their parts form something that is bigger than just the sum.
This much from somebody who’s not a fan, but an admirer of art and beauty.

]]> By: Mirko http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-37698 Mirko Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:17:56 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-37698 Everyone hated this article. I hated it. the idea of over-rated Smith songs is just so pretentious. There were no over-rated songs by this artist- the songs were all brilliant. People tend to hand out flattering and unrealistic superlatives like they're going out of fashion these days, but all of them are true for this man. His songwriting was as good as Lennon. it's rare to have a writer, in pop, who has such a command of lyrics, melody, harmony and arrangements. And not just virtuosity in these areas, but restraint, and emotional depth. The article was just a bad idea. that should be very clear by nowl Everyone hated this article.

I hated it.

the idea of over-rated Smith songs is just so pretentious. There were no over-rated songs by this artist- the songs were all brilliant. People tend to hand out flattering and unrealistic superlatives like they’re going out of fashion these days, but all of them are true for this man. His songwriting was as good as Lennon. it’s rare to have a writer, in pop, who has such a command of lyrics, melody, harmony and arrangements. And not just virtuosity in these areas, but restraint, and emotional depth.

The article was just a bad idea. that should be very clear by nowl

]]> By: elliotte's recipe http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-28189 elliotte's recipe Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:39:08 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-28189 i am a songwriter for 40 years and can figure out any music. i have a similar sound as elliotte and felt like elliotte beat me to it when he hit the charts! that asside,,,,,,i say we have a similar sound..BUT, elliott's CHORDS and CHORD PATTERNS boggle my MIND ! after listening to hid stuff over and over .."i can almost see HIS CODE?" has any more talented and musically educated fan out there UNDERSTAND HIS APPROACH? elliotte for sure uses the same chords to create his sound ! WHAT EXACTLY IS IT? asside from his voice I AM CERTAIN HE HAS SOME SORT OF MUSICAL THEORY OR TUNING OR ABABBA PATTERN HE USED WITHOUT A DOUBT! HELP ..I AM GOING MAD...I FEEL IT IS SOMETHING I MUST KNOW....TO FEEL MORE COMPLETE HERE ON EARTH AS CRAZY AS THAT IS? ps. i once had a vision that a friend of mine should play keyboards for elliott. ironically this person and his significant other nick named me "the prophet" ! that being said....a few years later after losing touch with those folkes i had that elliott vision...and how perfect this friend would be playing with elliott. WOULD YOU BELIEVE I WENT TO SEE ELLIOTT and my JAW DROPPRD TO THE FLOOR WHEN....MY FRIEND WAS ON KEYBOARDS AND GUITAR IN ELLIOTTS BAND !!!!!!! SWEAR TO GOD! INSANE !!!! i was able to go backstage and say hi and shake elliottes hand and say nice job! I REGRET NOT ASKING HIM....WHAT IT WAS ABOUT THOSE FREAKING CHORDS? was it an alternative tuning? TO THIS DAY ......IT IS DRIVING ME MAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 how does he look at that freaking guitar neck? does he see it as a keyboard? BUT LISTEN TO HIS CHORDS AND GUITAR RUNS...? THEY ARE repeated in every other song...its like every song is like his last rearranged? HE REALLY NEVER SWAYS FROM THIS THEORY !!! SOMEONE HELP ME !!! AHHHHHHHHH! i am a songwriter for 40 years and can figure out any music.
i have a similar sound as elliotte and felt like elliotte beat me to it when he hit the charts!
that asside,,,,,,i say we have a similar sound..BUT, elliott’s CHORDS and CHORD PATTERNS boggle my MIND !
after listening to hid stuff over and over ..”i can almost see HIS CODE?”
has any more talented and musically educated fan out there UNDERSTAND HIS APPROACH? elliotte for sure uses the same chords to create his sound !
WHAT EXACTLY IS IT?
asside from his voice I AM CERTAIN HE HAS SOME SORT OF MUSICAL THEORY OR TUNING OR ABABBA PATTERN HE USED WITHOUT A DOUBT! HELP ..I AM GOING MAD…I FEEL IT IS SOMETHING I MUST KNOW….TO FEEL MORE COMPLETE HERE ON EARTH AS CRAZY AS THAT IS?
ps. i once had a vision that a friend of mine should play keyboards for elliott.
ironically this person and his significant other nick named me “the prophet” !
that being said….a few years later after losing touch with those folkes i had that elliott vision…and how perfect this friend would be playing with elliott.
WOULD YOU BELIEVE I WENT TO SEE ELLIOTT and my JAW DROPPRD TO THE FLOOR WHEN….MY FRIEND WAS ON KEYBOARDS AND GUITAR IN ELLIOTTS BAND !!!!!!!
SWEAR TO GOD! INSANE !!!!
i was able to go backstage and say hi and shake elliottes hand and say nice job!
I REGRET NOT ASKING HIM….WHAT IT WAS ABOUT THOSE FREAKING CHORDS?
was it an alternative tuning?
TO THIS DAY ……IT IS DRIVING ME MAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
how does he look at that freaking guitar neck?
does he see it as a keyboard?
BUT LISTEN TO HIS CHORDS AND GUITAR RUNS…? THEY ARE repeated in every other song…its like every song is like his last rearranged? HE REALLY NEVER SWAYS FROM THIS THEORY !!! SOMEONE HELP ME !!!
AHHHHHHHHH!

]]> By: RomanCandle http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-26712 RomanCandle Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:33:52 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-26712 Generally speaking, is there really such thing as an over-rated Elliott song? Of course not. The one you may think is a dud is quite likely someone else's favorite. As to the 5 "over-rated" tunes listed here, "Miss Misery" is a typically melodic gem with a dynamite opening line ("I'll fake it through the day with some help from Johnny Walker Red"). Sure, the pun on miss/Miss isn't Elliott's most artful turn of phrase, but he turns the conceit into a complete chorus all by itself. The arrangement is gorgeous. Harmonies angelic. And it's so fantastic to hear Mr. Misery, himself, taking a bittersweet swipe at a misanthrope of the fairer sex. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Regarding "Son of Sam": how about the aggressive drive of that middle eight (at least up to "king for a day," after which, it admittedly goes a little overboard with the electric guitars)? And I may be wrong, but I always assumed the Shiva lyric was another of the many heroin references in Elliott's oeuvre. And of course, the songs isn't "about" David Berkowitz. Elliott would never be interested in writing something that obvious. I think the gist of song is that Elliott self-identifies more readily with the lamentable side of humanity, confessing "I'm a little like you/More like Son of Sam." This brings us to "Baby Britain" where drinking is incidental to the mute, isolation described in rather insightfully psychological detail. Yes, it's bouncy and decidedly Beatles-esque. God forbid. But no aspect of the performance threatened the quality of this man's catalog or his potential longevity as an artist. As for "Independence Day." What does Mr. DuBrowa require . . . more cymbal crashes than the perfectly contextualized drum loop can provide? Pa-shaw. Is it possible that the title/lyrics refer to Elliott's self-anticipated early demise? And finally "Pretty Ugly (Before)." This is an absolute gem of both self-reproach and self-acceptance. Again, close listeners will notice the depth of the lyrics. In a variation of the self-contempt found in "Son of Sam," Smith describes the ugliness he sometimes felt--physically, existentially, or morally--as an all-encompassing force robbing him of all self-determination ("I felt so ugly before/I didn't know what to do"). No wonder he was compelled to self-medicate with drugs, a fact of his life that he refers to obliquely in the line "And I'll feel pretty another hour or two." Once the drugs wore off, he was always back to square one. This is a bravely revealing and wonderfully crafted song. The kind that differentiates an artist from a craftsman. Notice the call-and-response of the voice and piano in the opening verse. The guitar solo is a tour-de-force of the simplicity and feeling that Elliott was capable of instrumentally. If you want to talk about an aspect of Elliott's being under-rated, how about mentioning his guitar playing, electric or acoustic? The man developed his own vocabulary on the instrument and wielded it with deadly intent and precision. We will never see his likes again. And though I grieve for him, I accept the fact that all of his fragile, haunting, heartful music could not have been created without the struggles he seemingly lived with on a daily basis, and that he and his work will remain criminally under-rated as a whole when people speak of the great pop songwriters of our time. XO Generally speaking, is there really such thing as an over-rated Elliott song? Of course not. The one you may think is a dud is quite likely someone else’s favorite.
As to the 5 “over-rated” tunes listed here, “Miss Misery” is a typically melodic gem with a dynamite opening line (“I’ll fake it through the day with some help from Johnny Walker Red”). Sure, the pun on miss/Miss isn’t Elliott’s most artful turn of phrase, but he turns the conceit into a complete chorus all by itself. The arrangement is gorgeous. Harmonies angelic. And it’s so fantastic to hear Mr. Misery, himself, taking a bittersweet swipe at a misanthrope of the fairer sex. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Regarding “Son of Sam”: how about the aggressive drive of that middle eight (at least up to “king for a day,” after which, it admittedly goes a little overboard with the electric guitars)? And I may be wrong, but I always assumed the Shiva lyric was another of the many heroin references in Elliott’s oeuvre. And of course, the songs isn’t “about” David Berkowitz. Elliott would never be interested in writing something that obvious. I think the gist of song is that Elliott self-identifies more readily with the lamentable side of humanity, confessing “I’m a little like you/More like Son of Sam.”
This brings us to “Baby Britain” where drinking is incidental to the mute, isolation described in rather insightfully psychological detail. Yes, it’s bouncy and decidedly Beatles-esque. God forbid. But no aspect of the performance threatened the quality of this man’s catalog or his potential longevity as an artist.
As for “Independence Day.” What does Mr. DuBrowa require . . . more cymbal crashes than the perfectly contextualized drum loop can provide? Pa-shaw. Is it possible that the title/lyrics refer to Elliott’s self-anticipated early demise?
And finally “Pretty Ugly (Before).” This is an absolute gem of both self-reproach and self-acceptance. Again, close listeners will notice the depth of the lyrics. In a variation of the self-contempt found in “Son of Sam,” Smith describes the ugliness he sometimes felt–physically, existentially, or morally–as an all-encompassing force robbing him of all self-determination (“I felt so ugly before/I didn’t know what to do”). No wonder he was compelled to self-medicate with drugs, a fact of his life that he refers to obliquely in the line “And I’ll feel pretty another hour or two.” Once the drugs wore off, he was always back to square one. This is a bravely revealing and wonderfully crafted song. The kind that differentiates an artist from a craftsman. Notice the call-and-response of the voice and piano in the opening verse. The guitar solo is a tour-de-force of the simplicity and feeling that Elliott was capable of instrumentally. If you want to talk about an aspect of Elliott’s being under-rated, how about mentioning his guitar playing, electric or acoustic? The man developed his own vocabulary on the instrument and wielded it with deadly intent and precision.
We will never see his likes again. And though I grieve for him, I accept the fact that all of his fragile, haunting, heartful music could not have been created without the struggles he seemingly lived with on a daily basis, and that he and his work will remain criminally under-rated as a whole when people speak of the great pop songwriters of our time. XO

]]> By: Kelly http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2009/03/31/the-overunder-elliott-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-25687 Kelly Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:10:15 +0000 http://www.magnetmagazine.com/?p=22995#comment-25687 All are great songs. Really, how can you rate Elliott's songs when he only has a small handful of kind-of-bad ones? All are great songs. Really, how can you rate Elliott’s songs when he only has a small handful of kind-of-bad ones?

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